Men are more likely to report sexual violence during war. Interview with human rights activist Lyudmila Huseynova

"When I finished my speech at the UN, everyone fell silent"

hromadske: According to the data provided by lawyer Maryna Rudenko in July 2024, law enforcement agencies are currently investigating almost 500 cases of CRSV. What do you see as the difficulties in proving guilt in such cases?

Lyudmila Huseynova: Almost all of the perpetrators remain in the temporarily occupied territories or on the territory of the Russian Federation. Obviously, Russia does not extradite these people and does not plan to do so. The perpetrators themselves also do not travel abroad because they are aware of the possible consequences. In addition, most of them are not allowed to leave the country because of certain restrictions imposed by Russia on those who work for it.

But, in my opinion, the problem is not only that we cannot punish them. The main difficulty is that since 2014, when the war with Russia began, this issue has received almost no attention. Now we know about numerous cases of sexual violence that occurred in 2014-2016 with people who were in the occupied territories and in captivity.

The war has been going on for more than a decade, and only now are we actively talking about conflict-related sexual violence as a war crime.

Another problem is that our Criminal Code does not have a separate article that would regulate such crimes. But now we are actively working on this.

Why is sexual violence still used as a tool of war?

Sexual violence has been used as an instrument of war for centuries. It would seem that after the high-profile Nuremberg trials, humanity should have learned its lessons, but sexual violence as a weapon has remained unpunished. Soviet soldiers raped Polish and German women, and German occupiers raped Soviet women. But there were no convictions or investigations of these crimes.

Unfortunately, our society is still not ready for an open discussion of this problem. Empathy for victims of conflict-related sexual violence is just beginning to emerge.

I feel terrible when journalists sometimes ask for an interview, but they are interested in the process of sexual violence: "What happened?", "How did it happen?", "Was it rape?". This misunderstanding is also present among the victims themselves, as many of them do not realize that they were subjected to CRSV.

Not all survivors of sexual violence are ready to talk about their experiences. What do you think would help more victims to open up so that law enforcement could document it?

We need to conduct more powerful information campaigns. Over the past two years, such work has begun, but its scope is still insufficient. The key is to convey an important message to society that sexual violence is a war crime.

It is not the fault of women who were raped or stripped or subjected to other types of sexual violence during the occupation that this happened to them. It is not the fault of men who have been subjected to terrible things in Russian captivity that they have been tortured.

We have to inform the society that there is only one enemy and perpetrator – the Russian Federation. It is its soldiers who commit these crimes. It is the Russian leadership that gives the go-ahead for these crimes to take place.

We need to talk more with the victims, show them our concern, and provide them with the opportunity to receive psychological assistance. It is important to create a system based on trust.

We need to develop public organizations that unite victims. These are, in particular, organizations such as Sema Ukraine, ALUMNI, and Let’s Go, Sisters! They unite survivors of sexual violence, provide support, and inform them about opportunities to get help.

Recently, I attended the presentation of the book Ukraine Is Not Silent: Chronicles of Fighting Against War-Related Sexual Violence (2022–2024). The book contains 25 interviews with victims, representatives of NGOs and the state. This publication is intended to show society that it is important not only to survive, but also to find the strength to continue living and developing. It includes my story and the story of Oleksiy Sivak, who, despite what he went through, united other men for mutual support.

You had an advocacy trip to the United States, where you spoke at the UN, talking about women prisoners and what they are going through. Does the topic of CRSV resonate with our foreign partners?

This was my third speech at the UN. The first trip took place just a few months after my release from captivity. I was released in October 2022, and in early 2023, at the invitation of the Media Initiative for Human RightsMIHR, I spoke at the UN. At that time, my main goal was to speak up for women who remain in captivity. I spoke about the terrible conditions they were in, about the torture they endured every day. I saw it with my own eyes, because I spent more than three years in the Donetsk pre-trial detention center.

I spoke for the second time a year later. At that time, there were no mass releases of civilians, and it seemed that nothing was changing. In my speech, I emphasized that women political prisoners are held together with criminal offenders, including those who fought against Ukraine and were later arrested for murder or drugs. This is unbearable psychological and physical pressure, which continued on the orders of the investigators.

Each of our addresses still has an impact. A year after that, Russia stopped holding political women prisoners together with criminal prisoners and transferred them to separate cells. There were also several exchanges that resulted in the release of the women I mentioned in my speeches, including Olena Pekh, who was held for six years, Maryna Yurchak and Olena Fedoruk, who were held captive for seven years.

This year, I spoke at the UN for the third time and again spoke about women who are still in captivity, about the fact that torture continues. Unfortunately, we could not save Viktoria Roshchyna, your colleague. This is a huge loss and pain for all of us.

Does it resonate with them? I can hear it. During my first speech at the UN, I asked: "Why does the world allow Russia to torture civilians since 2014 and does nothing about it?" When I finished my speech, there was silence. It lasted for another minute.

"The law is imperfect, but it exists"

On November 20, the Verkhovna Rada adopted the long-awaited draft law No. 10132 on the status of victims of sexual violence related to the armed aggression of the Russian Federation. Did the final version of the law take into account the recommendations provided by your organization, SEMA Ukraine?

I personally participated in the work on this bill. We met frequently – sometimes weekly – to discuss key issues. I brought up our proposals from SEMA and other women who participated in the process. Some of them read the document and offered their own ideas. I also insisted on certain points on my own, and I am glad that they were taken into account.

I wanted more, but I understood why the state could not give it now. And this is the golden mean that we found during the discussion of the law. Yes, this law may be imperfect, but it exists.

It is an incredible example for the whole world. During a brutal war, we have already made the victims visible today. In Kosovo, for example, it was only decades after the war that the rights of women who suffered from sexual violence began to be recognized. We have already shown that we support these people at the state level and will continue to do so in the midst of the war.

You say you wanted more. Which of your proposals were not supported?

I believe that we should also consider children from families where one or both parents suffered from CRSV as victims. I wanted certain social guarantees to be provided for such children.

Also, as a victim myself, I understand the social and financial problems that victims face, especially those who have left the temporarily occupied territories or lost their homes. It would be nice if the state provided guaranteed housing or assistance with resettlement. And also, instead of a one-time financial payment, regular monthly support, even if it is small, as is done, for example, in Kosovo.

The law was adopted in a form that the state can now afford, and this is an important step. But we must not stop. I talked about this with the author of the law, Maryna Bardina, and emphasized that we need to monitor the implementation of the law. It is very important that it actually works because we see many socially oriented laws that, unfortunately, sometimes remain only on paper.

In your opinion, how should a person be granted the status of a victim or survivor of CRSV so that it does not harm them? We know about the unpleasant experience of Bosnia, where women received aid in pink envelopes that quickly became associated with CRSV.

The main condition is confidentiality. All measures are aimed at ensuring that the data of victims applying for assistance or for obtaining this status are not disclosed.

In addition, a person who wants to receive reparations is not obliged to apply to law enforcement agencies to open criminal proceedings. It is the right of every person to seek help, and they will be recognized as victims by the Commission's decision.

The special commission you mentioned will, according to the law, consider issues related to recognizing people as victims of CRSV. How will it work?

This law was not just based on our ideas, where we talked and came up with this commission. In fact, a pilot program to provide urgent reparations is already underway. The project is funded by our foreign partners. Already at the stage of preparing this pilot project, a commission was created to review these applications.

This is an independent Commission, and all people's data is confidential. The Commission does not communicate directly with victims of CRSV. The latter submit applications through a special case manager. All the data of the person who applied for help is coded. That is, the Commission members cannot determine who exactly applied. Everything is done to ensure that it is not traumatic for the person who applies. There is a minimum of bureaucracy, a minimum of supporting documents, etc.

The Commission also includes victims themselves, because they know the topic of CRSV better than anyone. They review these applications and announce their "verdict" – whether to provide assistance or not.

The pilot project was aimed at 500 victims, but now there is support from the donor states of this fund, and it has been decided that they will be able to provide such assistance to 600 more victims.

I'll give you the latest numbers. As of December 3, we received 577 applications: 333 from men, 232 from women, and 12 from children and their representatives. As of now, 348 people have already received payments in hryvnia, equivalent to 3,000 euros, under the project: 185 men, 160 women and 3 children.

To apply for participation in the Pilot Project and receive immediate interim reparations, you can contact the Ombudsman's Office of Ukraine at the address (21/8 Instytutska St., Kyiv, 01008), by e-mail (hotline@ombudsman.gov.ua) or by phone (0 800 501 720; 044 299 74 08).

It is worth noting that there are more applications from men than from women.

This demonstrates their trust in the state and public sector representatives who provide such information. And I hope that there will be more appeals. The more awareness there is, the more requests for help there will be, and the more appeals to law enforcement agencies so that they can document the crimes of the Russian Federation will increase.

According to the law, people who suffered sexual violence during the war and children born as a result of CRSV will have the right to be recognized as victims. A part of society associates sexual violence with rape. What other forms can CRSV actually take, and why is it impossible to compare that any of them is less or more traumatic?

This is our post-Soviet idea of violence: it is associated only with rape. In Soviet times, for example, forced undressing and abuse, threats of violence, touching, or criticizing words were not considered violence. Now, thanks to the international community and experts, this is considered sexual violence.

The experience of captivity and forced displacement was studied. And there is an important difference here. When you are undressed to identify tattoos or scars and are not touched, this is, no matter how cynical it sounds, a technical procedure that is often carried out at checkpoints or during detention.

But when you are undressed, abused, touched and commented on, when an electric current is passed through your genitals, this is sexual violence. Similarly, if one partner is raped in front of the other, this is sexual violence against both spouses.

I have already given an example: in the middle of the night, they would open the cell door and simply tell the woman: "Go!". And she went, did not resist. They would take her somewhere to a bathhouse, then bring her back drunk, and she would cry. She wanted to forget it. She did this so that she would be allowed to see her children later.

While in captivity, we did not always realize that CRSV was committed against us. Only later, when we had the opportunity to evaluate it, did we realize what it really was.

Women often justify their actions themselves: "I went voluntarily". But what was behind this "voluntarily"? Mostly, there are threats: "If you don't leave, we will kill your husband" or "we will rape your children." In such situations, the victim may not realize that it was sexual violence. She is sure that there was no crime, because the violence did not happen "directly". Can we talk about voluntariness in such circumstances? This is one of the key problems that still needs to be addressed.

It is important to work on raising awareness of this both among victims and in society. Doctors also do not always understand how to work with such people. They have many questions, including how to conduct examinations when a trigger can be triggered at any time and the person will suffer. But we are gradually moving forward in this direction.

It is also important to inform people that there is no statute of limitations for such crimes. As the experience of the former Yugoslavia shows, after 10, 15 or 20 years, a person can muster the strength to report a war crime and seek justice.

I assume that there will be a problem with proving guilt in cases if a long period of time has passed after the crime was committed.

There are many technical possibilities now. Journalists, NGOs, and law enforcement document a lot. So in ten years, it will be possible to find out who was where, what territory was occupied, and what happened there. There will always be witnesses.

In your opinion, how should the state distinguish between survivors who apply for the status of a victim or survivor of CRSV after a long time and those who want to "cash in" on financial payments?

We have discussed this with our foreign experts. Yes, we understand that some people may try to take advantage of this opportunity. We understand that among the thousands of people who will apply for help, there may be a few who are not victims.

But we have come to the conclusion that because of, say, 5 people who will use this situation in bad faith, we cannot question the credibility of the other 995. We cannot cause people to be retraumatized by additional checks, to make them suffer again. It is difficult to come to any unambiguous decision here, but it is better this way.

Many civil society organizations have long called for assistance to the victims of CRSV to go beyond reparations. What rights does the new law provide for? And has anything important been lost in the more than a year of consideration of the draft law?

From the very beginning, we considered comprehensive assistance to victims, which includes guaranteed medical care, legal support, psychological support, and social support.

It's hard to say how this will develop further because after the law is passed, there will be more bylaws and resolutions determining which ministry will be responsible for specific aspects. This will require further work with all stakeholders. However, comprehensive assistance is provided for by law.

After the victory in the war, reparations to the victims, and not only from CRSV, will be assigned to Russia, but the law will probably come into force earlier. Who will fill the Emergency Compensation Fund before the victory?

Regarding funding, we must be realistic: the question of funds is still open, as there are other categories of people who also need help. But we will work to provide assistance to everyone who needs it.

Foreign countries, such as Germany, France, and Japan, are doing a lot to replenish the aid funds. I also hope that in the future plans will be implemented to use the so-called frozen assets of Russia for compensation.

In addition, the International Register of Damage Caused by the Aggression of the Russian Federation against Ukraine has already started working. It is currently focusing on compensation for housing destroyed due to Russian aggression, but I know that it will expand to include victims of CRSV, torture and other crimes, such as forced separation of children. Russia commits many crimes against civilians, and this Register will help ensure reparations for victims.