“Artists at war are just like everyone else”. Vadym Kozhevnikov on culture in the army and artists who are ‘not made for war’

“A good friend of mine from Kharkiv goes to the front with puppets. He shows them to people, and these guys, who won’t be able to get their hands clean for years, ask him: ‘Can I try?’,” says Vadym Kozhevnikov.

Until February 24, he worked as the director of the Kyiv Puppet Theater. When full-scale war broke out, he took up arms.

In a conversation with Serhii Hnezdilov, a soldier and host of hromadske, Vadym told how Ukrainian culture changed during the war, why he is in favor of liquidating the Ministry of Culture, and about culture in the army, the dark side of Ukrainians and artists who are “not made for war”.

How Vadym Kozhevnikov ended up in the war

I am a Crimean, so for me, the war started on the Maidan, then it turned into the annexation of Crimea, and then it spread like gangrene.

Then, in 2014, I realized that I had no skills, and no military training (I did my conscript service, but I served in a military band). So I joined the Ukrainian Legion and went through several training sessions over a year. So in 2015, I was ready to go to the front.

I didn't go then because of family reasons, but my wife and I had a memorandum. I explained it to her clearly: if I get a draft notice, I will get up and go where I am needed.

On February 24, 2022, I took my wife and daughter to my mother-in-law's house in the center of Ukraine. On February 26, I returned to Kyiv, and on February 28, together with my closest friend, I joined the 204th Battalion of the Kyiv Territorial Defense.

Ukrainian culture after February 24

When everyone started returning to Kyiv after the first few months, the stressful moments were reflected upon, turned into something valuable, and resulted in performances.

Some people say that the situation has been reassessed: Putin has attacked, and now we will watch Ukrainian performances. But it seems to me that it doesn't work quite like that.

Culture is a very difficult thing to manage. It emerges from nothing. In the literal sense of the word. It's like unleavened bread — it has picked up some yeast from the air, from the surface, because it is still made of something. Culture is the same way.

As soon as we have a void where Russian chanson used to be, where Russian sh*t series used to be, something else appears in that void. Not that it is of superior quality, but it is our culture. And let it grow. Let it overcome its own childhood illnesses, let it be ugly, let it be anything. The only thing that matters is our culture, our art.

Ministry of Culture and UCF

The Ministry of Culture is really a “ministry of bullsh*t”. I don't know what it does or what it should do.

For example, there is a talented director. He meets a talented manager and says: “I want to make this kind of play.” And the manager says: “I dream of creating a theater like this.” They start doing something, and in a month the theater is created. It comes out with some kind of high-profile premiere and just knocks everyone's socks off.

What does the Ministry have to do with it? The Ministry is supposed to create conditions. But in the entire history of independent Ukraine, the Ministry has never created any favorable conditions to at least save artists and cultural managers from being tampered with by other people's hands.

For example, you do something. Then you get a letter: “Give us a report like this”. And you sit there and think: “I've already submitted such a report. I submitted it to this department and that department. Why should I submit it to the Ministry again? Why are you sitting there? Can't you request other institutions and collect this information?”

I worked as a director for five and a half years. I had the feeling that people in the Ministry were sitting there thinking: “What should we do? Let's launch this!”

In contrast, there was the Ukrainian Cultural Foundation, which was a cool story at the beginning, when Yuliia Fediv and her team were there. For me, it was just a huge breakthrough.

In 2019, we won a grant with our project application for a play directed by Ihor Zadniprianyi. He is now at the front. Before mobilization, he was the chief director of the First Theater in Lviv. He and I made this project application together, even without an accountant and without a lawyer. And in these few months that we have been communicating with the UCF, I have learned, perhaps, everything that a project manager, a theater head, should learn.

And then the Ministry of Culture intervened. It seems that the Ministry set out to destroy this institution because it existed completely autonomously from the Ministry.

It's hard for me to analyze the last two years, I didn't keep track of what was going on. However, the UCF is no longer in the public space. Since Fediv was fired, there have been constant scandals there. This means that the institution is unhealthy. It does not produce but is engaged in some sort of dispute.

Artists at the front

How do artists differ from surgeons? Or judges? Or from IT workers? Do they have different hands? Do they have different legs? I divide this not by professions or by sectors in which we were involved in civilian life, but by the presence of a survival instinct. It doesn't matter what you were doing. If we lose this war, you will do nothing, you will simply not exist.

Ordinary Ukrainians who are still undecided say: “Well, maybe we'll make the switch somehow. Maybe Putin will win, and we'll adapt somehow.” Dear friends, you will never adapt. No f*cking way. Everything that happened at the beginning of the twentieth century will happen again, but it will be multiplied by 12.

There will be a new genocide, there will be new camps, and most likely our trained, armed with Western weapons and motivated army will be reduced by about half through executions and imprisonments, and it will be turned towards NATO.

This is not my fantasy. This is straightforward logic. Everyone involved in the army thinks so. The policy towards “ethnic minorities”, as they were called in the Soviet Union and are still called in Russia, let's be honest, has not gone away. That's why Dagestanis, Ingush, and Chechens are fighting against us in very large numbers. They do not touch the “golden ring” because it is the electoral core, and all the rest can be slaughtered.

The main thing is that propaganda works. Because everything rests solely on it. I have parents in Crimea, and I know very well how Russian propaganda works. They are not brainwashed — their brains are completely washed out.

Culture in the army

I define culture as a kind of common soil. In other words, at first, there is a vacuum, and then grains fall into it and germinate. It's the same in the army. It's just that the story with the army is a little more complicated because it is a state within a state. And this is normal.

This point where we are now is not even a post-Soviet army, but a really small Soviet army. Apart from the fact that it is now filled with motivated people from within.

This is what makes us different from the Russian army. They are motivated by money and fear. We are motivated by the instinct of survival and the desire to build our own country in terms of rights and freedoms.

Ukrainian society is capable of such manifestations of awareness and passion that other societies are not. And the army, in my opinion, is currently in a state of turbulence. Because the army is such a clear pyramid. Everything must be done on command, otherwise it will simply fall apart.

Horizontal connections work here, but they must be legitimized. Even if you agree on something with someone, you have to go through the commander so that the person you agreed with does something later.

The biggest problem is the personal attitude to any military unit as a valuable element of the entire army structure. This should be in everything.

The recruiting company is about that. “Hello there, how can we help?” — “I got a draft notice.” — “What do you do?” — “I'm an IT professional.” — “Cool. Let's talk about what you can do, and what you know. What do we have to offer? We don't have any offers right now. Let me give you an order, and you'll come as soon as I have a vacancy.”

This is how it should work, but it doesn't. We take an IT guy. And where do we send him? To a place where we have a blank cell. And that's it. And this is not normal.

But we cannot help but change, it is a matter of survival. We have to change in order to win this war. We simply have no other options.

It is a normal thing that it is so painful and not always even. And not always the way we want it to be. We just have to say to ourselves: “Calm down now, your interests will not always be taken into account, and that's okay, do your job.” At least that's what I tell myself.

Is a dialog with Russia possible?

In the context of this war, the idea of a dialog sounds wild. But, of course, there will be some kind of dialog. Throughout our history, we fought with Lithuanians, Tatars, and Poles. And now we are not just communicating with them — we have ties and agreements.

But as for Russia, right now, everyone wants to win the opportunity to conduct this dialog from the position of a winner. This is both our goal and theirs.

If Russia wins, they won't need a dialog at all. They will simply assimilate people, deploy the army, and fight to the last Ukrainian. They are not talking about this for nothing — this is their plan. And this is our difference.

We will engage in dialogue, but, of course, with those with whom we are interested in engaging in dialogue, those whom we consider promising. Because this is the market and these are resources.

But by that time, at least some kind of primitive reflection must take place. And then there will be a huge demand for artists who will make films, paint pictures, organize exhibitions, etc.

I really want to believe that this cultural boom that has started in Ukraine is just the beginning. Now there is no reflection — we are inside the process, inside the stress. As soon as we start to get out of it and look at it from the outside, as soon as the process of reflection begins, I think our cultural product will become much bigger and much more diverse.

Military culture and civilians

I believe that in the dialogue with Russia, it is very important that the need to be militaristic is built within our society. It's like in some American states. The presumption of respect. You never know who is in front of you. You don't know this person's history, their psychological state. And you don't know how many guns they are carrying. So I respect you, but there is a line that I don't want you to cross. People keep a respectful distance from each other because they understand that it is a matter of survival.

I am not a leftist person. Liberal values are great, but I don't see how Ukraine can survive now with a full set of Western liberal values. Now more than ever, it is time to finally decide whether Ukrainians should carry weapons in civilian life or not.

Military culture is not just about how to treat the military or service. It's that being militarized is cool. Being able to use a weapon is cool. Having a weapon at home is cool. There should be emotional involvement.

Evaders, nepotism, and ambassadors of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

This is the dark side of our society. On the one hand, it is clearly capable of doing passionate things, such as going to the Maidan with wooden shields and moving against armed Berkut officers. And on the other hand, it is capable of “settling” with a friend and saying, “You've paid off the bribe, attaboy, let's go have a drink.”

There should be ambassadors. A specific example is my wife. She has absolutely no tolerance for people who do not respect the army, who pay off, and so on. Even I am more tolerant. When she walks in somewhere, even if there is some talk about it, it just stops. She looks at people in a way that makes them feel ashamed that they talked about it.

Another example. I have a friend, an artist from Kharkiv, Valerii Dzekh. He created the Small Puppet Theater in Kharkiv, and when the full-scale war started, he left everything behind, took his puppets, and went to the front. He went as a civilian and has been wandering along the contact line, without a military ID, just a crazy idiot from the point of view of a normal person. But, on the other hand, he says: “I just know that if I am drafted, I won't be able to do this, and I do therapy. I come with these puppets, I show them to people, and these guys, who can’t get their hands clean and won’t be able to do so for years, say: ‘Can I try it?’.” He is doing a great job and is incredibly dedicated.